The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. at the best online prices at eBay! The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. Something went wrong. There is a moderate mark as shown in the photograph. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. I hunker down and blaze away. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. FORE ARM HAS A PEICE OF WOOD MI, This is an all original 1962 made Winchester Model 12 in the harder to find 16 Gauge. If not it has been shot very little and stored under the right conditions. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. Askins and Buckingham would sure be surprised at how far the 12 magnum has come. It's what was refered to as a "Olympic Rib". That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. Bids. Bluing is in overall very good condition. Has 30" barrel choked Full. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. The number of pellet holes was divided by the average number of pellets in the load to produce the pattern percentage. Built from 1912 to 1963. *** RARE *** Winchester Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN limited production run that combines the pre-64 Model 12 with a 12 ga. Magnum 30" barrel, factory production 3" Magnum, with a factory Simmons Vent Rib on an upgraded wood stock! These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. Beautiful grain pattern and very tight hand checkering on the stock . later on flinching became a problem with 12 gauge shooters becouse of 300 round tournaments. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. It is at my engraver now. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. Probably a lot farther than we can hit em. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! These ribs have Simmons markings. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. THIS SHOTGUN WAS A LIMITED RUN OF 4000 MADE BETWEEN 93-95. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. We need to talk model 12's sometime. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. I am planning on shooting it at the Grand Nostalgia shoot. In their view, the Model 12 pump with 3-inch chamber was likely to sell better than a similarly chambered Model 21 double. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. Thanks for the reference. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. He worked with another Winchester researcher. Instead of buying a gun thats Refresh your browser window to try again. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Options for the Model 12 duck gun were reduced over the years, particularly following World War II. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Advanced . An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. Can you help me out? Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. The 30" heavy barrel is proof stamped "WINCHESTER TRADE MARK MADE IN THE U.S.A."; "-MODEL 12 - 12 GA. - FULL"; "WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL"; "FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER - X 3 IN.". Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. No Reserve. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. You have entered an incorrect email address! Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. And our By 1955, the options were matted rib, ventilated rib, straight or pistol grip stock and buttstock and extension slide handle checkered. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. No Reserve. This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. The Model 12 duck guns are still as suitable for waterfowl passes, fox trails or the habitat of the wary gobbler as they were when the duck hunters at Winchester surprised the market in 1935. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. community. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. Title. Most books say they did not. The Model 12 was about 40 percent more expensive than the '97, yet it consistently outsold its older brother during the 45-year-span they shared in the Winchester catalog. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Full list of professional Gunsmithing services and prices at Simmons Gun Repair Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " Manufactured in 1959. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Stay in the know. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. At Guns.com, if an FFL is Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. Buy Winchester model 12 26" vent rib poly choke barrel: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 973937149 . Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. I believe the blueing to be original. Cred, Ser no 510553, Mfg 1928 , Numbers Match, 30" Donut Post Vent Rib that is stamped Imp Cyl but has been relined and is Mod, 2nd barrel is 30" Donut Post Vent Rib stamped full but is Mod, Stamp, This Winchester Model 12 was manufactured in 1955 and is in good condition for its age. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. Modified choke. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. Model 12 duck guns could be ordered in pidgeon grade, featuring fancy wood and meticulous fitting and finish of parts. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. and/or Simmons, left in the "white", and sent to the other. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Everything functions as it should. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. A 2pin vent rib lets the shooter sight under the bird and keep the bird in sight. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. Guns.com's selection won't leave you feeling unprepared. Manufactured in 1959. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. This is a 12 GA pump shotgun manufactured in 1950.
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